Sherie: Hi Drew, Thanks so much for fitting me into your busy schedule; I really appreciate it! Let’s get started – I've got a question for you about the work you do in Panama. For those that don't know, Panama is an incredible country with such diverse flora and fauna, linking Central and South America. So how did you become involved in the Panama canopy research?
Drew: The Panama margay cat research project was basically two researchers contacting me out of the blue, and I believe they had gone onto some climbing forums in the UK. They're a UK-based couple, and my name just got chucked into the pot with people they should contact, so I touched base with them and signed up. At the time I thought, 'I don't know how I'm going to financially afford this, and I don't know what I'm going to do, but I really want to be involved, even if it's just to set equipment,' but I was thrilled to be a part of it regardless. I am fortunate to work closely with Yale Cordage and DMM, and they helped me to go over and give on-the-ground assistance with all the training etc. and just to do it properly with the assistance of these generous companies, such as Reecoil, was a hell of an adventure!
Sherie: Wow, that's an amazing life experience. So with that in mind, every adventure has its ups and downs – what's been one of the best and the worst parts of that particular experience?
Drew: There wasn't really a downside to it but I will say the timing was a bit unfortunate that we would be away over the Christmas and New Year period, which can be a difficult time to be away from family. Although the deal was sweetened by sleeping in a hammock in the jungle and having an outstanding and unexpected internet connection in the middle of an isolated jungle, being able to chat with my wife and friends was a really nice moment. Being in Central America and experiencing the different sounds and sights, like waking up to seeing wild monkeys at the break of dawn and seeing tropical birds you would never normally get to see and knowing we're there for weeks on end, able to take this all in, it was incredibly humbling and honouring to know not many people would ever get to see or experience this so it was very much a pinch-me moment.
Thinking of that, with all those experiences, what lessons did it teach me? It taught me that I always take too much equipment. I'm really bad at slimming down the equipment and when you are hiking every day into the clouds, especially with the terrain in Panama and the intense hiking every day up into the cloud forest, it is hard to lug everything with you. But I like to take enough equipment to cover every possible scenario – it's borderline not realistic and it is a struggle always taking two gear bags but I'd really hate to be stranded without them.
Sherie: Yeah, that old saying, 'I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it,' rings true here. That actually brings me to my next question:what challenges did you face at the time?
Drew: Gear slimming is a little bit of one of those challenges really, no matter where you go or what the job is. It's little things like throw lines and throw cubes. You know, do you only take one throw line and one throw cube or take as many as possible? Especially if you have been voyaging for three hours away from base camp and one gets stuck, you soon realise how much you missed packing that extra one. I think that's always a work in progress. It's always situation dependent, though, as well, and sometimes when we have been walking three-plus hours up super steep hillsides, it does hurt a bit having too much gear, but when you get there and you've got everything you need plus some, it's kind of worth it.
Sherie Yeah, that would absolutely suck to get all that way in and realise you needed something you didn't pack. But you're right, it's such a fine line between overpacking and underpacking for the job – especially in such an isolated environment. Speaking of gear and speaking of the job itself, what were the kinds of safety constraints that maybe restricted the research?
Drew: Not too many safety concerns, to be honest. We always have to be aware that where we were was a fairly remote location and not exactly easy for rescue services to get to you. Snake bites were one of the major safety concerns, as one of those would kill you before you could get help. In the jungle there are pit vipers, which are one of the most dangerous snakes. And in that location there isn't exactly antivenom because we couldn't store the antivenom correctly and then knowing that even with our satellite coms there is virtually no place a helicopter can land so we had to be overdiligent not to get into pit viper territory. There are plenty of other not-so-life-threatening creepy crawlies out there, such as the bullet ants. I heard it's supposed to be the world's most painful sting from any insect you can get. They're about two and a half centimeters long so they're big and you can see them when you're in the tree, which is good; they are large enough to catch your attention. The pain is supposed to be like being shot and it lasts about 24 hours so when I was walking, I always made sure I had my GoPro in one hand and a rock in my other hand because if you slip and fall, you don't want to grab onto a tree that has one of them under your hand. Same as accidentally grabbing a palm tree, as there'd always be a hypodermic needle shooting out of the palm and you only do that once or twice and then you soon learn to not grab hold of anything on the way down so the GoPro and a rock have really saved my bacon a few times. Another thing I guess people don't think about is that the jungle is unforgivingly wet, so talcum powder is a must-carry, as you never really dry off and being on your feet all day in water could equal some nasty infections.
I’ve been really fortunate that I have done quite a bit of work with TV shows here, like Survivor, with all the crew so I actually get to speak to a lot of experts in that field and just picking their brains is eye-opening. One of the biggest lessons they taught me was to never combine your wet gear with dry gear. It sounds straightforward, but when you are tired from the day's work, it's easy to just lump things together and not think about gear rot, etc. The talcum powder trick is something I would have never thought of but does make a lot of sense. It's a case of you don't know what you don't know. Forever grateful for all that I have learnt on the job and continue to learn.
Sherie: That’s amazing. I love it when you meet people like that that are so willing to share their tips and tricks. I have to say that's one thing I admire about this industry: so many people are willing to share their trade secrets with you and expect nothing in return. The Arb industry really is like no other. Thinking of the safety concerns, have there been any near misses? I mean, it sounds like you've had quite the adventure out there so I wouldn't be surprised.
Drew: Funny you should ask that, as I was just thinking earlier when we spoke about gear I had this one time we did a trek up into the heart of the jungle and we only had two throw balls and I threw my line up into a tree and the ball came off. I will admit looking for it I did get a bit complacent and we were just going through scouring through the top of the cloud forest, which was an incredible view btw and then out of nowhere my crewmate Lucy screams at me to stop and look in front of you… I'm thinking, like, 'Okay…' And she's still screaming at me to look in front of you, about four metres in front of you. And so I'm looking at this log and I'm thinking, 'Well, I can't see my darn throw ball.' She's like, 'No no no, that's the biggest viper I've ever seen!!!'
At that point I froze on the spot. And then that Viper and I locked eyes at each other. Thankfully it's really cold up there and of course they're cold blooded so they don't move much in that environment, thankfully. Once I snapped out of my freeze response, I was swearing holy [__] for what felt like an eternity. It was a really good wake-up call and a real 'check yourself' moment for me. We hadn't seen any snakes for some time and you forget they are around so having that near miss was actually a really good wake-up call. Needless to say, we continued on without that throwline. Trevor and Lucy really saved me that day.
Sherie: Ummmm… That’s terrifying and a great reminder that even seasoned professionals can drop the ball as such from time to time. I’m glad you are OK, though. I hope you bought yourself a lotto ticket that night.
Canopies vary so much around the world and you've clearly been so lucky to experience many varieties – where is your favourite place you've been or even the one place you would take yourself back to if the opportunity arose?
Drew: That's a different answer every single day, to be honest. I think one of my favourite places of expeditions I went on was Easter Island. Funny enough, there weren’t any trees on the island but as a kid, seeing the Moai in real life made me feel like I was in Night at the Museum. Being able to go there as part of a climbing team and going down the cliffs and into the caves of that place was a real pinch-me moment and seeing those in real life was surreal.
This is such a tough question; I have to say that climbing the big baobabs in South Africa and measuring those was again just amazing.
I really can't answer that question, to be honest; all locations have different facets to what makes them amazing and being able to climb big coconuts in Fiji on a beautiful sunny day is also right up there. I love my job here, you know. I get to climb in some of the most beautiful pristine Paradise Islands and it's a dream, really. I could go to England and climb a big oak tree in a forest and be like, 'Wow – I'm in such an Ancient Forest and I don't want to leave.'
Sherie: You're a very cool person with a very cool career; that's for sure. How has Reecoil been able to help you with your journey?
Drew: I’ve known Dan for as long as I can remember. We first met through climbing competitions in Australia and New Zealand, and we’ve been crossing paths for years now – we’re all starting to show our age!
I’ve always had great conversations with Dan. It’s never been about business or obligation. I just like chatting with him and sharing ideas I think are interesting. Usually, he’ll respond with something like, “Oh, let’s send one out to you and see what you think.”
I really enjoy giving companies feedback, especially Reecoil, as you guys actually take it on board to improve the game. I’ve never wanted to be a spokesperson for any one brand because, honestly, no company makes everything perfectly. I prefer collaborating with companies that are open to improving, taking a product that’s already great and refining it even further.
Speaking of design, if I had to pick my favourite Recoil product, it’s definitely the foot loop. Honestly, I’m going to make him millions in foot loop sales! It might seem like a small piece of gear, but it’s something I use every single time I climb. It fits my boot perfectly and never comes off.
Sherie: Drew, you are an absolute legend in and out of the canopy. Thank you so much for the chat! I have workplace envy everytime I see your photos. If people want to reach out and say hi to you where can they best find you?
Drew: Thanks, Sherie. It’s been fun chatting. People can find me chilling in Fiji but also hit me up on Instagram at @dbtree.
